Any interest in new star type reloader?

[333OKH]

Now theres someone who knows what he is talking about.

[rbwillnj]

dverna

It's good to hear Spolar is selling some.  They look like a great machine, but like I said, I don't know anyone who has one or is interested in buying one.   

The guys I shoot with are not financially challenged.   They have no problem spending $15-$25K on shotguns, but they won't spend $1500 on a shotshell reloader.

But anyway, the point of the original discussion was whether there would be a market for a "new" Star at the price it would cost to make one.   I think there wouldn't be much of a market, but as the Spolar illustrates, there would probably be at least some people who would be willing to pay top dollar to own and use the best machine available.

As a side note, last year I spoke with Dan Phelps, the son of John Phelps.   Phelps Engineering went out of business in 64 or 65, and the assets of the business were sold in a bankruptcy sale.   The assets still exist in storage, and Dan who operates a machine shop (like father like son) considered buying the assets and making the reloaders again.   I can't remember if he said it would cost him $2000 to make a reloader now, or if he said he would have to sell it for $2000.    In any case, A newly made Phelps would cost at least $2000.  Dan Phelps abandoned the idea.   

[Joatmon]

That is an interesting piece of information, and I am sorry to hear that about Dan Phelps. It is a little sad that another door might be closed on the possible manufacture of a Star "like" reloader.  I guess if the assets are still in receivership there is the possibility of another person trying to make a go of it. 

Thanks for the information Swanee, I am a bit disappointed that you will not be pursuing the production of the Berdon brand.  However, I am sure that if you come up with some mods for a slick 223 conversion there would be some interested parties here.  Probably me included. 

Does anyone happen to know the name of the company that built that large version of the Star?  I remember seeing a photo of a tool designed to reload .50 BMG maybe 15 years ago (Star on steroids).  I would like to know what happened to them and if the tool could be set up to load other more common rifle cartridges. 

John

[dverna]

rbwillnj

Interesting information.  It confirms that nothing like a Star will ever be built again.  It is sad.

There is a sizable market for progressive machines to load pistol calibers but we have many players already.

Those who want a Star can buy decent used machines for $400-800 and keep them running even if parts have to be made.  It becomes hard to justify $2000+ for a new one unless the supply of old ones dries up.  We are seeing a lot of Stars on Ebay because guys are getting out of shooting or as estate sales. 


Don Verna 

[rbwillnj]

Joatmon,

This evening I had a conversation with Dave Davidson of CH Tool and Die.  I'm not sure how we got around to the discussion topic, but he began to talk about a guy who had designed a large version of the Star to load 50 BMG.  According to Dave, John Powers who owned a machine shop or metal working business in the Detroit area designed and built one for himself, and later for $5000, built one for a guy by the name of Kent LaMott.  As far as Dave knew, those were the only two ever built.  Apparently this all happened in the mid 80's.

Bruce

[NYKenn]

For someone that shoots a lot, 1000 yes, 1,500 maybe, 2,000 not sure.
I cannot imagine 5K for a reloader. That would price out the market.

[rbwillnj]

I think we are talking about a one of a kind machine, or at least one of two.  As I understand the story, John Powers had no intention of marketing the machine, he just built it for himself.  Kent LaMott wanted one and convinced Powers to make one for him at a rather extravagant price.   Dave Davidson, currently of CH Tool and Die, who told me the story was sitting at the dinner table with Powers and LaMott when the deal was made.

Now I don't know if this is the same machine that Joatmon was asking about, but the story seems to fit.

[Joatmon]

Bruce,

Thanks a lot for sharing that piece of information.  I have been wondering about that for years, I didn't think my memory was that far gone.  The time frame sounds about right, somehow a photo of one of those machines must have gotten into a copy of reloaders digest or some such book (I cant seem to locate it now).  It answers the question that the larger machine was never commercially produced. 

Five thousand is way out of the range of what almost anyone would pay anyway.  As Don points out, used machines are still available and can be fixed up for much less that that.   My earlier point was just that some folks are willing to pay more than average for the best/fastest/highest quality tool.  The size of that niche market is what you would  have to price and market the machine for.  All of the updates that have been suggested above would be important also (standard die size, powder lockout and drain, auto indexing, etc).   

Just out of curiosity, is the tool head for the Star cast steel or cast iron?  I don't really want to do the grinder and spark test experiment to find out, but would like to know.  The idea of a milled aluminum head with a larger bearing area (larger bore column or sleeved bronze bushing) would decrease the manufacturing costs (just dreaming here).

John

[Kenneth L. Walters]

Joatmon,

This evening I had a conversation with Dave Davidson of CH Tool and Die.  I'm not sure how we got around to the discussion topic, but he began to talk about a guy who had designed a large version of the Star to load 50 BMG.  According to Dave, John Powers who owned a machine shop or metal working business in the Detroit area designed and built one for himself, and later for $5000, built one for a guy by the name of Kent LaMott.  As far as Dave knew, those were the only two ever built.  Apparently this all happened in the mid 80's.

Bruce

I'm pretty sure that there were four.  Had a set of pictures of one of them years ago.

[Kenneth L. Walters]

The Star copies, as best as I can remember, were the Phelps, Berdon, CPM, Dillon RL1000, the 50 BMG and a unit produced in Australia by Simplex I think.

[rbwillnj]

That's interesting, I have never heard of Simplex.

[starman]

I thought the one built in Australia was a Willis mybe im wrong boy that would be a first in a long time

[Kenneth L. Walters]

It has been way to long for me to be sure but I think that the Willis was an entirely different machine made here in the US.  If it is the unit I'm think of it was announced, there was a picture somewhere but I could never track down a machine.

The Australian Shooter's Journal could probably tell you the name of the Australian Star copy.

[rbwillnj]

I did some Goggle searches, and Simplex is certainly an Australian maker of reloading equipment.  I have not been able to find any references to a Star type machine yet, but they did at least make copies of Lyman turret presses.  If Simplex made a Star copy, I would sure like to see some pictures.

[Joatmon]

After a little digging I found a book chapter in the ABC's of reloading 6th ed. (1997) that was written by Ken Walters (that's you isn't it Ken?).  The chapter is titled "State of the progressives" and included is a photo of a Star clone set up in 50 caliber Browning.  There is no more information in the text and a manufacturer is not listed.  I think this is the photo that I recalled seeing.  This certainly looks like a commercial production machine, but that is all I could come up with. 

John