Author Topic: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231  (Read 64540 times)

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Star73

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2008, 09:56:14 am »
30 or so yrs ago almost every well built bullseye gun had a Bo-Mar, either sights or rib. The advent of the red dot had to severely restrict the market. At one point Clark, probably the foremost producer of bullseye guns at the time, switched to Aristocrat ribs. This must have had an adverse effect for Bo-Mar also.

bummer7

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2008, 11:48:34 am »
When you look down the line at a centerfire match these days, do you see more dots than irons? 

I always thought the growth of the action shooting sports contributed more to the decline of high quality adjustable sights than anything else.  It just seems as people drifted away from conventional pistol shooting, the demand for high quality adjustable sights dropped off.  At the public range these days, I see more Glocks, Sigs, and SA XDs than 1911s. 

On the plus side, Bo-Mar set the standard for others to follow.  They were also difficult to get at times in the past. 

CDRT

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2008, 01:14:04 pm »
Quote
When you look down the line at a centerfire match these days, do you see more dots than irons?

Here in the Dallas area I'd say it's 60/40; red dot to iron.  There are quite a few of us still shooting iron sights.  And it's something I recommend if your main goal is to get Distinguished Pistol.

My Clark Heavy Slide that I had built in 2003 has a Bo-Mar Rib.  The website still lists it being made with a Bo-Mar rib.
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NYKenn

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2008, 01:58:39 pm »
As CDRT notes, here in the NorthEast, use of dots versus open are also about 60 / 40.

Mostly, those utilizing red dots seem to be the newer 2700 shooters (fewer and fewer each year)  and older shooters. The new I think because of it being easier to sight with. It limits the need to really master the fundamentals of sight alignment, and concentrate more on trigger control. The older shooters use them mostly due to necessity, to keep shooting as eyesight begins to decline.

I switched to red dots around mid to late 80s. My bullseye scores went up, but did not do well in subsequent distinguished matches trying to achieve the gold. Went back to iron, (.45s with Bomar ribs) practiced more and got distinguised next four matches. I still shoot iron sights and still have Bomars on both my ball guns. (1 Clark, 1 Crawford)

It might also be a bit ironic that Don Hamilton set the National record for highest score at Camp Perry with open sights, and it is still a 30+ year record not yet broken. Also, the majority of those in the 2770 club were shot with open sights, but this is beginning to change.
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Star73

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2008, 04:25:08 pm »
Here in Florida I thing the percentage is much higher. Probably because there are more of us retirees. I put them on (very) early 80's I was shooting master & all of the masters in our area made the switch so I felt I had no choice. I was already distinguished so that was no factor. The top masters then said theIr scores weren't any better but it was easier. Those guys still shot well in the ball matches, one of them winning the top civilian. A many time state champ (Ohio) said the red dot was a great training aid.

I find when I shoot opens I have to practice & concentrate to achieve any scores at all. The speed shooters probably have driven the scope development as they are easier to shoot fast making the point as to hurting the open sight co's.

I heard Jim Sr had a disagreement with Bo-Mar thus the use of Aristocrats for some time period. No idea as to length or when.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 02:52:27 pm by Star73 »

bummer7

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2008, 04:30:02 pm »
I don't remember seeing a 60/40 split or anything close to it on the line here.  I would estimate a fourth of the shooters have red dots.  However, at an indoor league a few years ago, I was the only one shooting iron sights out of 11-12 competitors.   Only time I remembered being outnumbered by dots.  I didn't mind it until they voted to turn off the lights at the firing line

rbwillnj

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2008, 02:16:55 pm »
I finally got around to Ransom Rest testing my Clark 38 Special.   The attached picture is a 10 shot group at 50 yards from a ransom rest.   The load was 2.7 grains of 700X under a Remington 148 Gr HBWC.   I'm pretty happy with the results.
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NYKenn

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2008, 03:21:09 pm »
Nice target.
You know when the gun can shoot with the right load, the rest is all up to the shooter.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

bummer7

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2008, 04:43:46 pm »
Nice!  What would you guess is the bullet speed? 



Star73

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2008, 04:58:59 pm »
rbw,
700X seems to be a well kept secret. Occasionally the pdr is advocated with the user getting excellent accuracy. It will group well [no e-mail]@ 50 yds using a 160 gr H&G 242s.

How is your 38 set up, heavy slide, scope, or just the slide & reg sights?

Very nice group, looks like 8 x's...possibly 9?
Ron

rbwillnj

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2008, 06:09:41 pm »
My Clark was originally a "Heavy Slide" and is so marked.  It had a slide mounted Ultradot.  However, because of reliability problems the previous owner had Clark install one of their bridges for a frame mounted scope, and that's the way it is set up now.   I haven't shot the Clark much lately, but I plan to shoot it at the Police-L match at Harrisburg this weekend, and for the centerfire portion of the New Jersey State Championships next week end.
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CDRT

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2008, 07:39:22 pm »
This was with a Clark Heavy Slide (iron sights) at a outdoor Bullseye match in Dallas.  25 yard timed fire.  Load was 3.0 grains of BE.  I've since gone back to the 2.7 load.
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rbwillnj

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2008, 09:40:43 pm »
Bummer,   I chronographed the string.  The average speed was 793 fps with a standard deviation of 7 fps.

CDRT,  Looks like you need to adjust your sight down about two clicks......just kidding, nice target.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 09:42:48 pm by rbwillnj »
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bummer7

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2008, 10:14:57 pm »
Guys,

Really impressive grouping, targets, and shooting.  Even better is all the great information on pet loads!  You given me new ideas on loading the 1911/38. 

Thanks for all the good information and encouragement.   

-s


Star73

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Re: 38 Special load for 50 yards with W-231
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2008, 11:57:37 pm »
I have to take issue with the advice to chg the sights...it should only be moved 1 click.
Ron