OLD Star Lube/sizer , PAT PEND BASE , Cast Iron & BRONZE Parts

[bigdaddy]

I have an old Star lube/sizer ,it has some parts that I cant find on other star lube/sizers I have found on this site & the interweb.
I want your opinion on what I have.....This is for sale & I want to know exactly what it is so I can describe it correctly...

These are the parts that are different than others I have seen

Brass Tag riveted on the base that says "STAR MACHINE WORKS SAN DIEGO CALIF"
PAT PEND cast into to LARGE rectangular sand cast base ,
CAST IRON Lube tube cap
CAST IRON Crank Shaft Bearing Bracket
CAST IRON Bullet Punch Ram
BRONZE Fulcrum Lever Bracket
Curved Fulcrum Lever going to the lube pump plunger

I have talked to a guy that worked for STAR in the 1950's ,He siad this is the prototype that STAR used to get the patent for the lube/sizer back in 1934 / 1935. He said this is the one that was on display in the office for many years at STAR MACHINE WORKS...BUT others have contacted me & disagree that this is or might be the PROTOTYPE..
Look at these photos & PLEASE post your opinion....

This was found stored in a old building on the corner of 10th Ave & Broadway in San Diego.
Less than 6 blocks north of the old STAR MACHINE WORKS location at 418 10th Ave San Diego Calif.

[LeupoldMRK4]

I have an old RCBS "2A" press that shows patend pending also.  I dont think that makes it a "protoype", only an early production model made before the patend was issued.

There is no doubt that your lube sizer is and early one.  As for it being a "THE" prototype built from the first sketches drawn on a piece of cardboard. No.
 

[fc60]

Greetings,

I would be great if the person you spoke with, that was a former employee, would join the Forum so we could quiz them about other subjects.

My interest is how they heat treated their dies.

Cheers,

Dave

[bigdaddy]

LeupoldMRK4
The cast iron parts I have seen...
What is your explanation of the BRONZE Fulcrum Lever Bracket & the Curved Fulcrum Lever & the LARGE sand cast base?
Have you seen these before???

Fc60
the former employee was a member on this forum... But he got tired of the BS
He is retired & makes parts for the lube/sizer ,He contacted me throught eBay & told me what he thought this was.....

I'll check with him & see if he wants to answer questions....

[LeupoldMRK4]

Search "Old Star Lubrisizer" on this forum you will see one like this one.


I have seen a 38 progressive press of the similar era with the same brass plaque and I think it had the "patend pending cast in. Ricketts on ebay had it. I dont think it was the first Star 38 progressive prototype built.

[bigdaddy]

LeupoldMRK4
 I really value your opinion & knowledge about these machines & I thank you for helping me.
 I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this.

I found the thread "Old Star Lubrisizer" . That one has the BRONZE Fulcrum Bracket , & the curved Fulcrum Lever...
But it has a PATENT NUMBER on a small base & no Brass tag....
I have seen the brass tag on a old star press ,But I haven't seen one on a Lubrisizer

What I haven't seen is the LARGE rectangle shaped base with PAT PEND & BRASS TAG

I'm not trying to be a hard nose about this ... I'm just going by what Bill , The old star employee told me...
He said he thinks this is the prototype  that was on display in the office at star in the 1950's.

[bigdaddy]

SOLD ON EBAY..... Got what I wanted for it....

[Pressman]

Through a multiparty transaction this Star is now in the Achive of the Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Association.

Ken

[fng]

Gentlemen,
I'm not very knowledgeable on Star History,
but I've reviewed this post,
as well as the "old star lubrisizer" post,
and the post on the ARTCA site.
Mine is very similar... your thoughts ?
thanks,
Fred, new guy

[rbwillnj]

Very interesting Lubricator Sizer.   It looks as though the Fulcrum Lever Push Rod Assembly has been replaced with a more modern version, but other than that it looks as old or older than the one above.   It's a close match to the one in the CR Peterson's 1935 Patent.

The interesting thing is that it has neither a Pat. Pending or a Patent number.   Do you see any place where a brass plate may have been attached in the past or where a Patent number may have been removed?

[rbwillnj]

Here are a couple of pictures of a similar design Star Lubricator Sizer with the Patent number stamped in the base.   This would post date the sizer at the top of this thread.

So can you think of any other products that were invented over 80 years ago and are still considered the best product in their class??

[fng]

Hello Bruce,
Thanks, the pictures are interesting. Here are a couple better base pics, the die is a Star .429
Yes I see you're right the Fulcrum Lever Push Rod Assembly is more like the one in the Illustration and Parts List. The Fulcrum Lever Bracket is also different, and there is no set screw drilled/tapped in the base casting to secure the die. The base looks like it may have had a welding repair and been hit with a grinder, if so the "Pat Pending" may have been ground off. I did not see brass tag mounting holes thru the base either. However, I guess it's possible  (or not) that development prototypes might not have included the "Pat Pending" or tag till there was a 'final' prototype for patent submission (?). The Fulcrum Lever Bracket may even have been a pre-patent design which was thought better of, it's a mystery to me at this point, and another reason I appreciate the knowledge here in the forum. Without what I've learned reading old threads, I would not have looked at this item twice.
If this lubricator resizer has any historic Star significance, I would want to make sure it is preserved and appreciated for it's place in the development of Star tooling.
Oh and ummm Yes I know some other old 'best' products...
I specialize in 1860's-1880's ornamental ironwork restorations... the old stuff is the fun stuff !
Thanks again Bruce, best wishes and be safe I hear there's a bit of a blizzard header your way tonight!!
-Fred

[rbwillnj]

I think the fulcrum lever bracket is consistent with the age of the sizer.   The fulcrum lever assembly is definitely from a modern version or a derivation of same.  The socket head screws are definitely a later addition.  I'm sure some previous owner did what ever was needed to keep it going.  I noticed that the base looked like it had been ground, but was not aware that it had been repaired.  Is the top of the pressure screw a hex like in the patent drawing?  If so I would imagine the Pressure screw handle might have been added later....but who can say.   Whatever the case, it's an interesting machine.

[fng]

The pressure screw top is like the Illustration and Parts list diagram,
same as the pics posted above by Bigdaddy, neither are like the Patent drawing.
Looking at the base again, if there was any weld repair it was very minor.

[rbwillnj]

Never seen a Star of any kind that didn't have a Patent number or at least Pat. Pend.   It's hard to imagine someone would have ground off either, but I guess we will never know.   Maybe you have a machine that predates the patent application.