StarReloaders.com Discussion Forum
Star Reloaders Discussion Forums => Star Reloaders => Topic started by: counting empties on August 31, 2006, 07:37:59 am
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I'm a new Star owner , the machine that I bought does not say Star on it anywhere. I know there were a few others that copied the Star. The machine that I bought is a universal and came with shellplates for 45acp , 38spl and 223 / 9mm , it also has an adjustable chargebar and takes 7/8-14 dies. There is an F cast into the base. It is missing the primer feeder. It looks just like a Star from all the pictures that I've seen , but how do I tell for sure. Bill
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LOOK ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TOOL HEAD AND SEE IF THERE IS A COLLAR MACHINED ON IT (WHERE THE HEAD SLIDES UP AND DOWN THE SHAFT) STAR STAMPED THERE NAME ON TOP OF THE TOOL HEAD.
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The bottom of the toolhead is flat , no collar and the toolhead does not have Star stamped on it. If it is not a Star what is it? On the casting above the toolhead it looks like it had an oval sticker on it (where the Star sticker would have been). It looks like all the castings have an F cast into them. I have a Phelps loader and everything is just a little smaller on the Phelps.
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GO ON PAGE 2 OF THIS FORUM, CLICK ON OLDTIMER AND READ THE WHOLE THING, ROSS CHESLEY GOES INTO PRETTY GOOD DETAIL EXPLANING THE MACHINES, YOU MIGHT HAVE A STAR MACHINE WITH A PHELPS TOOL HEAD, EVERY THING I HAVE READ STAR PUT COLLARS ON THEIR HEADS (I HAVE 7 HEADS) THEY HAVE COLLARS, STAR DECALS ARE NOT OVAL THEY ARE RECTANGLE.
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Berdon is another company that made Star copies, and their tool head also lacks the collar. The Berdon tool head used standard 7/8-14 dies also. Another feature distiquishing a Berdon tool head is that it could be used with either a Star type powder slide housing, or with a standard powder measure. Below the Powder Slide Housing was a ~7/8" unthreaded hole for mounting a standard powder measure. I have a Berdon tool head, and it came with a 1/2" cast iron powder slide housing.
My Berdon is stamped "Berdon" on the tool head between the taper crimp station, and the seating station. Very small letters, and a very light stamp. I only have the head, so I can't compare the rest of the machine.
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That is a Berdon reloader. They were a far cry from a Star. Probably one of the worst, if not THE Worst copy of a Star. The metal was inferior, nothing hardened properly. It has a home made appearance. I have one that is brand new. I only own it as a conversation piece, and to show the unknowing how much better the Star was made
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Berdon?! Really? I owned one but it has been so long since I sold it, about ten years, that I just don't remember.
I also don't remember any machine but the Star that had a Star-like blue paint job.
I was leaning towards this being a parts machine. Some Star parts some not.
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I only have a Berdon tool head, but its blue, and just about an exact match to the Stars that I have.
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Below the Powder Slide Housing was a ~7/8" unthreaded hole for mounting a standard powder measure.? ?I have a Berdon tool head, and it came with a 1/2" cast iron powder slide housing.
I also have a head with all of the features above. It has a lathe turned flange and is not bump ground* like the Star. Phelps heads are also bump ground. It does not say Berdon but it is also blue, just like the Star. It has never been on a press. I took the powder slide off this morning looking for a name and there was still factory grease under the powder slide!
*Bump Grinding is done by placing the tool head on an arbor between centers and bumping the side of the grinding wheel up against the flange of the tool head. The arbor is OD ground to run perfectly true so the ID of the part (tool head) ends up perfectly square with the flange that is bump ground. That is what gives the flange on a Star head the crosshatch pattern. Thickness and squareness can easily be held to .0002 but .0005 is more common. I broke into the machining world as a "bump grinder". It is now becoming a lost art.
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I hadn't noticed it before, but my Berdon tool head has a lathe turned flange as well, so I guess that's good way to tell a Berdon from a Phelps. When I get a chance, I'll post some pictures.
The threaded hole for the expander plug on my Berdon is not the standard 1/2"-27 that Star uses, but I found that it uses the same thread as an RCBS expander plug. I don't know if this is original, or a later modification.
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I disassembled my machine it does not say Berdon on it anywhere , the expander plug hole and the powder measure hole are both threaded 1/2-27. Another thing I noticed was that the nut that holds the shellplate on is not knurled.
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Are these holes 1/2-27 or 11/16-24?
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Ed, The threaded holes that we were talking about are the holes for the powder measure spout, and the expander plug. These holes are 1/2"-27 on a Star. I think you are thinking of the holes for the dies, and they are 11/16-24 on a Star, and 7/8-14 on a Berdon.
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RB, I think you are right, I was not thinking at all. I just did some work on a Berdon tool head for a fellow and had my brain on something else.
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Are the die holes on a Star universal 11/16-24 or 7/8-14?
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You could special order a star with 7/8x14 die holes but you also had to have the dies modified as there wasn't really enough clearance. As I recall, Star would do that work.
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Of the Berdon shell plates that I have, non are hardened. Many of the Berdon parts were made by college students as part of an engineering/machinist program as told to me by the Berdon owners son. I don't think the manufacturer of the Berdon had enough knowledge of proper metals, or hardening etc. He may have used close grain cast iron, in the head for example, but it does not seem up to the grade of the Star. I was offered a chance to purchase the remaining Berdon parts, most unfinished. After obtaining and closely examining a finished Berdon machine, still new and unused, I decided to decline the offer to buy the remaining parts. I never regretted it. I spoke with several previous owners of Berdons. I never heard a good word from any of them regarding the Berdon. Parts wore out quickly. Complaints were numerous and a number of lawsuits were threatened I was told. Comparing a Berdon to a Star, is like comparing a Yugo to a BMW. Every Berdon head I have seen was painted a dark blue in color. The original decal ( actually a sticker) was a silver/chrome colored, with black letters. They came off easily. They were all threaded to 7/8" to accept standard dies. Star and Berdon,,,,, Like the difference between a Rolex and Timex.
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Since the Berdon is a star copy do parts such as case feeders , primer feeders and shell plates interchange between them? I checked the shell plates and the toolhead on my machine they are not hardened.
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Berdon also made a copy of the Hulme case feeder. I have a number of them, some unfinished. Again, not of high quality materials. I spoke with one former Berdon owner, and he had 2 Berdons. He had poor luck with each of them. One previous owner I spoke with, loaded 1000 rounds of 30-30 rifle with his Berdon. He went thru 2 shell plates loading those 1000 rounds. One guy I spoke with who bought a new Berdon, had a terrible experinece with it. He sent it back and demanded his money back. You might ask, "how do you load rifle on a Berdon?". Well, one thing the Berdon was designed to do, was give a longer stroke to it's cycle. That is the reason for the "long arms" extending outward on the head. It is also the reason for the 7/8" dies, again to allow for rifle and standard dies. I would not advise trying to put an incomplete Berdon together by purchasing Star parts. They would most likely not fit properly. Berdon original parts like the primer feeder bar,etc, differ in appearance especially concerning a quality or manufacture. I have a number of spare Berdon parts, just little time to dig thru them. If you were sold the Berdon, and told that it was a Star, I would go back to the seller and get your money back. If that is not possible, then I hope you did not have to pay much for it. Like the saying goes " You pay for your education".
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I bought the Berdon from an older lady , her husband died last year and had a bunch of reloading equipment. I thought it was a star she didn't know what it was , I bought the Berdon and a Phelps , I already sold the Phelps at a loss . I just put the Berdon on Ebay , hopefully I'll won't lose too bad on this one. Thanks for all the help in figuring out what it really was.
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I've had a Starr and a Phelps side by side on my bench for about 50 years, everything seems
to be interchangeable and both produce execellent ammunition. (paint jobs are a identical blue)