StarReloaders.com Discussion Forum
Star Reloaders Discussion Forums => Star Reloaders => Topic started by: daviscustom on March 14, 2021, 06:14:27 pm
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Hi, I finally put together a little bit of money to convert my universal over to 45 ACP. I bought a tool head with dies and a shell plate. Still missing a few parts, but I’m in the process of checking everything out that I just received, and I discovered that the shell plate openings are large enough that a 45 ACP casing will pull straight out if it’s not pushed all the way to the back of the groove. I’m guessing that must mean I have a 45 LC shell plate instead? I’m wondering if that is a less common shell plate than 45 ACP, and if I should pursue getting a replacement from the seller if it’s available or if I should keep it and try to trade for a 45 ACP shell plate and maybe a few of the other parts that I’m needing? I thought maybe we could turn it into a win win for me and somebody looking for a 45LC plate. I think really all I’m lacking is the large primer punch and nut, and the large primer feed bar. I’m also going to be needing a charge bar but I don’t know yet which one.... maybe a blank.
It looks like the openings in the shell plate are .492” wide.
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It appears that the case diameter at the base for 45LC is .48 so that appears that’s what this shell plate must be designed for - .01” slop for the case sounds about right.
Just heard back from the seller and unfortunately it wasn’t just a mix-up, it was misidentified. Anyone looking for a 45LC shell plate? He’s willing to take it back of course but I’d rather find the plate I need.
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Look on e-bay for 45LC shell plates. They go for more than .45acp plates. Maybe 3 times?
Are the dies correct? Marked .45acp and not .45LC? Several hundred dollars difference.
The .45acp dies are the second most popular dies in the Star line up.
Shell plates are out there.
Good luck,
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Yes the sizing die is marked 45acp so hopefully I’m good there, but I will check them out more closely tomorrow. Since I don’t have the correct shell plate I haven’t been able to run any cases through to check it out yet, but I can try to take some measurements
I thought maybe I might be better off just keeping this one and try to do a little horse trading with it instead of sending it back for a refund.
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Greetings,
The 45ACP sizer can be used for 45 Colt.
Check the seating die for identification. 45 Colt was stamped "45 C" on some I have seen.
How is the shell plate identified? If genuine Star, it will be stamped "45 Colt" or "45 C".
Photos of the suspect parts would be a great help.
Cheers,
Dave
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The only marking on the shell plate is a G stamped in the recess on the bottom side.I don’t have any pictures with me at the moment so I can’t post any pics until after work.
Thanks for the info on the 45 colt markings to look for, I will certainly check that out.
Edit:You know now that I think about it I guess it’s possible that that is a C instead of a G that’s stamped on the bottom side… I will look more closely when I get home.
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45 Colt Shell Plates made by Star are generally marked LC. So I'm guessing yours was made by someone else. A picture would help.
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The marking on the shell plate is definitely a G… I’ve been monkeying around with my phone and I finally got the pictures small enough, but now there’s an issue with the file type trying to upload them so I’m still messing with it. I also have not been able to find any markings on any of the dies on the tool head other than the sizing die and it is a lifetyme. It does have two vertical lines cut in the knurling of the sizing die that look like they were done with a cold chisel.
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I just realized if I’m going to do a link, I might as well do a high-resolution picture so they should show you more information about the condition
https://i.imgur.com/4lkf7yk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dsib9Vn.jpg
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Hmmmm, it looks like maybe my dies are 45LC as well.
My social secretary was rushing me out the door to a birthday gathering, but I grabbed a fired 45acp and it bottomed out in the seating and taper crimp dies.
The shell plate is .218 thick. That was the only measurements/tests I was able to preform so far.
Earlier, I did notice the lower counterbore on the shell plate seemed pretty shallow, but I haven’t had a chance to measure it yet.
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After further consideration and a second less-hurried look, the dies probably are 45 ACP....here’s a picture with two fired 45acp cases stuck in the seating and taper crimp dies. The case expander is 1 7/8” long.
https://i.imgur.com/CIvuzZO.jpg
So the big question is the shell plate, is it 45LC?
The outer diameter of the shell plate is 3.678”. The bottom counterbore appears to be about .06” deep and it is about .57” wide.
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I would assume the critical diameter on the shell plate in terms of pocket position would be the distance from the back of one pocket to the back of the pocket directly across from it?.... on the shell plate that dimension is 2.763”..... maybe I’m missing something but the actual outside diameter of the plate seems less critical.
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The internal dimension is associated with fitting over the column.
The overall outer dimension is important to insure the plate seats correctly in the machine base. Obviously if too large and it will not fit and index correctly. Too small and it will begin to impact shell alignment and location at each station. The locator straps function with a correctly sized shell plate to insure cases are centered at each station of he loading process.
Bruce Williams, "RBWillNJ" on this site is the resource for all parts Star.
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The “inside “dimension I was talking about is the distance from the back of one shell pocket to the back of the opposite shell pocket which would tell you if the holes for the shells were at the right diameter to line up with the dies in the machine. The center hole seems to be the correct size to fit the main post of the machine.
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Here are a few more accurate dimensions.... my original measurements were done with my retired calipers that I took home with me and they’re a little bit worn on the tips were you measure inside dimensions. I discovered the openings for the cartridge pockets are about .480” at the back of the pocket and the wider dimension I gave earlier of .490-.492 is in the “funnel” that guides the cartridge into the pocket.
https://imgur.com/a/m5VCevI
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First off, the shell plate really does look like it was made by Star. The G is a puzzle, but I have seen some odd markings on Star shell plates.
The slot where the case is inserted looks like it has a beveled edge which would be typical for rimless or semi-rimmed cases that are held in the shell plate by the extractor groove. Shell plates for rimmed cases like 38 special and 45 Colt are held by the rim and the slot is not beveled (so far as I have seen). This doesn't prevent it from being used for 45 Colt if the case fits and the recess on the bottom of the shell plate is big enough to accommodate the rim, and is the correct depth.
The diameter of each caliber shell plate is different. This makes it possible for the shell locator straps to push the case all the way into the shell plate.
I wonder if it was a 45 ACP shell plate that was modified to fit 45 Colt. I have seen such things. I won't name any names.
Bruce Williams
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So if the outside diameter of the shell plate was a little smaller than normal that shouldn’t keep it from working then right?… Since that should still give me clearance to keep the plate from interfering with the tabs holding the case in place? Is that outside diameter what you would normally expect to see for a 45acp plate?
By the way, I measured the plate at work with my micrometer and it is .2174” thick
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I wonder if it was a 45 ACP shell plate that was modified to fit 45 Colt. I have seen such things. I won't name any names.
Bruce Williams
So I guess the big question, is this shell plate worth keeping to trade for what I need or do you think that outside diameter being too small is going to create enough problems that you wouldn’t recommend it? If you don’t think it’s going to be a viable option for someone to use to reload 45 Long colt then it’s probably not gonna be of much value for me to try to use it for trade and I might as well send it back for a refund. Is there any more information that you need to be able to form a recommendation?
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So if the outside diameter of the shell plate was a little smaller than normal that shouldn’t keep it from working then right?… Since that should still give me clearance to keep the plate from interfering with the tabs holding the case in place? Is that outside diameter what you would normally expect to see for a 45acp plate?
By the way, I measured the plate at work with my micrometer and it is .2174” thick
The diameter you mention above would be close to the spec for a 45 ACP shell plate. Sorry, specs are proprietary.
Yes, you can use a shell plate that is smaller than spec, but it makes adjusting the shell locator straps a little harder. The best way to adjust the shell locator straps is to turn the shell plate so the straps are NOT opposite a shell opening then adjust the strap so it just clears the shell plate. Of course this assumes the shell plate diameter meets spec.
Bruce Williams
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From what I could gather off of the net, the extractor groove for a .45Lc is .450". The extractor groove for a .45acp is only .394".
So it is looking more like to be a .45Lc shell plate.
The die has those funny 2 lines cut into it with what I think is a die grinder or cut off wheel not a cold chisel. Somebody put them there to identify something.
I think you will need to use a resized case or a new cartridge to see how they fit into the sizing die. The fired case will expand a few or several thousands of an inch and throw off your findings.
Let us know what you find.
Later,
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Just to clarify the fired case would not go in the sizing die, I was sliding it into the bullet seating and the taper crimp die. I guess I can bring the dies to work and check the inside diameter‘s to get a better idea what I’ve got.
Unfortunately I don’t have a shell plate for 45 ACP so I can’t test it out very easily, but I can get a unfired cartridge and see what it does in those dies.
It would be interesting to see how a factory made shell plate for 45 LC is made… This one appears to be made with the intent of holding the cartridge by the outside case wall just above the rim.… Rather than going into an extractor groove.
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A factory loaded 45 ACP cartridge will not push into the sizing die by hand so that seems like a good sign.