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Star Reloaders / Buying the Name and throwing it all away
« on: January 18, 2005, 06:26:11 pm »
Hi Ken,
I understood Ellard's family did not wish to continue with the business. I also have heard Star had some challenges and we can probably never know for certain all the factors involved but it seems clear that they fell behind the customer demand and enabled Phelps and Berdon to get into their market and sell products, then failed to modernize or really get cooking on their future.
I suspect a part of the cost increases and production difficulties might have been due to tighter environmental and OSHA regulations. I heard Star used to do their own casting and sodium cyanide heat treating out back -- somewhat dangerous and the cost to modernize must have been a major deterrent for the company. They must have farmed out some of the work to specialized companies and that can drive up costs as well as introduce variables into the production.
I think nearly any problem with a company can be solved with a good product and some competent business management that looks to the future and expects to grow the business and be accountable for success. When we look at some family businesses, they start up almost accidentally or by opportunity and are self-funded or driven by the owner's interest and fancy. That's not all bad, but at a point the business becomes accountable to the customer and the ownership must step up and realize customers are the reason there is a business, they depend on you and will not remain loyal if they cannot trust and have confidence in the business.
If Star brought in a few investors, modernized production and established some continuity and set goals for the business, I think they would still be going strong. Ellard wasn't as flexible in consideration of new ideas and it sounds as if he really did not care to share his responsiblity or bring in new people, new ideas, and perhaps change the way the product was made -- that's quite a bit of work at his age. He was a practical and creative fellow happy with his product and not easily swayed by people's suggestions and ideas for improving things. A few ideas were so good he saw their merits. At least he did not see the business close, equipment get sold off, and the company's products split up and left to chaos.
I know there was a specific decision to assure Dillon Precision would not own the Star name or get production of the reloading tool. I am not sure Dillon would really have wanted to have Star other than for the customer list. I do recall Dillon was once a Star customer and worked out some ideas with Ellard before he started making his own reloading tools. That was a slap in the face to Star, but perhaps it was also the best opportunity for Star to have turned up the burner on their production and business goals. Instead, Dillon proved he knows how to sell presses and people really like his idea of customer service. A customer can pick up the phone and get what they need. Replacement parts and repairs are free.
With respect to Star there was value in their name, value in their history and the reputation of the original company. Bill told me he has the original customer list and records so I am sure he is in touch with the larger customers that might still use these in a commercial production environment. The fact is that customers are unfortunately shrinking because the machines and original users are getting older. A few will recall and appreciate the quality and value of the original product and remain skeptical of the new company because we do not hear about their production methods, inventory, or anything else. We hear of one man working part-time and of problems. When faced with these kinds of negative advertising, it is no wonder many people choose the convenience and mass-enthusiasm of more "modern" equipment.
Some people fear what could happen if all Star production was to stop. The fact that people say Star went out of business 10 years ago is really not true. Star of San Diego, of Ellard Mock, of the original production went out of business, but someone bought the name, the customer list, and claims to have had some orientation and assistance in getting started in making parts or machines.
I understand those that support Bill Cunningham out of fear or because he is the only one producing anything that they know of. There is nothing to prevent anyone from producing parts, so all it takes is someone with the equipment and commitment to produce them.
Explore the second option, if you keep your company a secret, put up a website that is 2-years "under construction" and fail to maximize exposure by taking advantage of the web, search engines, or print media, then you will lose customers and interest each year. You can assuredly fail by doing nothing, but to succeed takes work.
I am sure we'd all love to see new Star machines. Has anyone actually seen one or are we only believing they are produced because the price list says so? Has anyone reviewed one and pronounced it wonderful? Has anyone seen one? Does anyone know someone with a new one, and how can we tell the difference between refurbished original and brand spanking new production? Is the quality of the parts better or even as good as original production?
If it is an issue of making money, why not communicate and make things simple and collect orders and make production to order? There are ways to solve the money making side, get investors, get to people that do not know about Star. Most people say they cannot find them anywhere and we all know you could sell nearly as much on a deserted island using the current marketing and customer service approach.
I think about investing in an opportunity to promote and sell a good product and feel good about representing the product. We could sell and promote through small groups, organizations, etc. but the trouble is we do not see Star Machine Works anywhere, we do not feel any emotion or commitment, and we do not see any results or improvements or effort to change the current ennui.
The Star company should understand the basics of marketing, customer service, and customer loyalty. If you do not build it, it does not get built. If you destroy a market it is gone forever. I have corresponded many times and I am sure there is a premium market for Star quality. There must be confidence from the company and more information if we are to build confidence in the company. We need to know what makes a Star Universal better than a Dillon 1050, 650, or any other press. What makes Star a better company? What makes Star proprietary dies better than 7/8-14 dies from every other company? How long will a Star made today last? What about warranty, what about customer service?
I am sure that the original Star was not sold without any marketing materials, without sending units to good shooters or known reloaders and getting their input and statements to promote the product to customers. Since large police departments and commercial reloaders were the start, how many could be convinced to buy them today? How many use them today? What is the lifespan in commercial use? What makes this better than Dillon in commercial use?
Business must be earned and won instead of taken for granted or conceded from lack of communication. If it is an issue of funding or a need for orders, why not publish what is needed and explore all opportunities including the free ones on this website? I would love to be asked to design a free website page and find ways to promote the Star product here! I would only ask that I be kept informed of referrals and updated on what's happening at Star Machine Works -- it is frustrating to see such potential unexplored.
Between those on this list and some with funding, I am sure there is a way to make Star reloading tools competitive in the market place and encourage people to buy new machines, sell machines, and recommend them to others. What would it cost? How many could be produced? It is possible this may never be a full-time job, but what about a full-time commitment to see it succeed, to see it grow, and be willing to see it turn into a full-time job?
The first issue is what makes the Star better?
We can point to use of high quality parts that wear slowly and remain consistent as a major factor. The design of the reloader itself is a solid and proven design.
Once you have quality in design and production, the trouble is nobody hears of Star or considers the company as still in business.
We'd need a marketing plan, and business goals. We would need to know our customers and what they want. This requires communications. We need advertising and promotion to inform and excite everyone to become or remain a customer and to get attention in the media.
I will remain a Star owner and user because I know the presses will last. I am not as confident in the present company.
Maybe we will have to watch the Star name die and concentrate on keeping the product alive. Maybe we need to send a message to Star Machine Works of Pioneer that we expect more information and to see progress and response to communications and to receive updates about what is being done to assure quality control, what's new, and to be confident that there is a commitment and passion for high quality standards that will carry into the future.
I do not think there is a person on this forum or that has used a Star that would not like to see Bill Cunningham and Star Machine Works succeed. I'd be willing to bet there are more people that do not know he exists and think Star is out of business. -- That's a darned shame, and so is the fact that a few minutes a week could not be devoted to letting this forum know what he is doing and what he thinks. It sure could not hurt business any.
I understood Ellard's family did not wish to continue with the business. I also have heard Star had some challenges and we can probably never know for certain all the factors involved but it seems clear that they fell behind the customer demand and enabled Phelps and Berdon to get into their market and sell products, then failed to modernize or really get cooking on their future.
I suspect a part of the cost increases and production difficulties might have been due to tighter environmental and OSHA regulations. I heard Star used to do their own casting and sodium cyanide heat treating out back -- somewhat dangerous and the cost to modernize must have been a major deterrent for the company. They must have farmed out some of the work to specialized companies and that can drive up costs as well as introduce variables into the production.
I think nearly any problem with a company can be solved with a good product and some competent business management that looks to the future and expects to grow the business and be accountable for success. When we look at some family businesses, they start up almost accidentally or by opportunity and are self-funded or driven by the owner's interest and fancy. That's not all bad, but at a point the business becomes accountable to the customer and the ownership must step up and realize customers are the reason there is a business, they depend on you and will not remain loyal if they cannot trust and have confidence in the business.
If Star brought in a few investors, modernized production and established some continuity and set goals for the business, I think they would still be going strong. Ellard wasn't as flexible in consideration of new ideas and it sounds as if he really did not care to share his responsiblity or bring in new people, new ideas, and perhaps change the way the product was made -- that's quite a bit of work at his age. He was a practical and creative fellow happy with his product and not easily swayed by people's suggestions and ideas for improving things. A few ideas were so good he saw their merits. At least he did not see the business close, equipment get sold off, and the company's products split up and left to chaos.
I know there was a specific decision to assure Dillon Precision would not own the Star name or get production of the reloading tool. I am not sure Dillon would really have wanted to have Star other than for the customer list. I do recall Dillon was once a Star customer and worked out some ideas with Ellard before he started making his own reloading tools. That was a slap in the face to Star, but perhaps it was also the best opportunity for Star to have turned up the burner on their production and business goals. Instead, Dillon proved he knows how to sell presses and people really like his idea of customer service. A customer can pick up the phone and get what they need. Replacement parts and repairs are free.
With respect to Star there was value in their name, value in their history and the reputation of the original company. Bill told me he has the original customer list and records so I am sure he is in touch with the larger customers that might still use these in a commercial production environment. The fact is that customers are unfortunately shrinking because the machines and original users are getting older. A few will recall and appreciate the quality and value of the original product and remain skeptical of the new company because we do not hear about their production methods, inventory, or anything else. We hear of one man working part-time and of problems. When faced with these kinds of negative advertising, it is no wonder many people choose the convenience and mass-enthusiasm of more "modern" equipment.
Some people fear what could happen if all Star production was to stop. The fact that people say Star went out of business 10 years ago is really not true. Star of San Diego, of Ellard Mock, of the original production went out of business, but someone bought the name, the customer list, and claims to have had some orientation and assistance in getting started in making parts or machines.
I understand those that support Bill Cunningham out of fear or because he is the only one producing anything that they know of. There is nothing to prevent anyone from producing parts, so all it takes is someone with the equipment and commitment to produce them.
Explore the second option, if you keep your company a secret, put up a website that is 2-years "under construction" and fail to maximize exposure by taking advantage of the web, search engines, or print media, then you will lose customers and interest each year. You can assuredly fail by doing nothing, but to succeed takes work.
I am sure we'd all love to see new Star machines. Has anyone actually seen one or are we only believing they are produced because the price list says so? Has anyone reviewed one and pronounced it wonderful? Has anyone seen one? Does anyone know someone with a new one, and how can we tell the difference between refurbished original and brand spanking new production? Is the quality of the parts better or even as good as original production?
If it is an issue of making money, why not communicate and make things simple and collect orders and make production to order? There are ways to solve the money making side, get investors, get to people that do not know about Star. Most people say they cannot find them anywhere and we all know you could sell nearly as much on a deserted island using the current marketing and customer service approach.
I think about investing in an opportunity to promote and sell a good product and feel good about representing the product. We could sell and promote through small groups, organizations, etc. but the trouble is we do not see Star Machine Works anywhere, we do not feel any emotion or commitment, and we do not see any results or improvements or effort to change the current ennui.
The Star company should understand the basics of marketing, customer service, and customer loyalty. If you do not build it, it does not get built. If you destroy a market it is gone forever. I have corresponded many times and I am sure there is a premium market for Star quality. There must be confidence from the company and more information if we are to build confidence in the company. We need to know what makes a Star Universal better than a Dillon 1050, 650, or any other press. What makes Star a better company? What makes Star proprietary dies better than 7/8-14 dies from every other company? How long will a Star made today last? What about warranty, what about customer service?
I am sure that the original Star was not sold without any marketing materials, without sending units to good shooters or known reloaders and getting their input and statements to promote the product to customers. Since large police departments and commercial reloaders were the start, how many could be convinced to buy them today? How many use them today? What is the lifespan in commercial use? What makes this better than Dillon in commercial use?
Business must be earned and won instead of taken for granted or conceded from lack of communication. If it is an issue of funding or a need for orders, why not publish what is needed and explore all opportunities including the free ones on this website? I would love to be asked to design a free website page and find ways to promote the Star product here! I would only ask that I be kept informed of referrals and updated on what's happening at Star Machine Works -- it is frustrating to see such potential unexplored.
Between those on this list and some with funding, I am sure there is a way to make Star reloading tools competitive in the market place and encourage people to buy new machines, sell machines, and recommend them to others. What would it cost? How many could be produced? It is possible this may never be a full-time job, but what about a full-time commitment to see it succeed, to see it grow, and be willing to see it turn into a full-time job?
The first issue is what makes the Star better?
We can point to use of high quality parts that wear slowly and remain consistent as a major factor. The design of the reloader itself is a solid and proven design.
Once you have quality in design and production, the trouble is nobody hears of Star or considers the company as still in business.
We'd need a marketing plan, and business goals. We would need to know our customers and what they want. This requires communications. We need advertising and promotion to inform and excite everyone to become or remain a customer and to get attention in the media.
I will remain a Star owner and user because I know the presses will last. I am not as confident in the present company.
Maybe we will have to watch the Star name die and concentrate on keeping the product alive. Maybe we need to send a message to Star Machine Works of Pioneer that we expect more information and to see progress and response to communications and to receive updates about what is being done to assure quality control, what's new, and to be confident that there is a commitment and passion for high quality standards that will carry into the future.
I do not think there is a person on this forum or that has used a Star that would not like to see Bill Cunningham and Star Machine Works succeed. I'd be willing to bet there are more people that do not know he exists and think Star is out of business. -- That's a darned shame, and so is the fact that a few minutes a week could not be devoted to letting this forum know what he is doing and what he thinks. It sure could not hurt business any.
You might have thought they were gone because they moved a couple years ago. I spoke with a very nice person who is sending me their current catalog. They do not have a website. 
