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Star Reloaders Discussion Forums => Star Reloaders => Topic started by: saltydog on January 19, 2011, 11:00:50 pm

Title: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 19, 2011, 11:00:50 pm
I'm going bonkers.

My learning curve on the Star is turning out to be a long incline. The primers are getting wedged a bit in the feed tube.  What makes it worse, is they are also geting wedged in the feed mechanism that positions the primers for seating.  Either will prevent primer flow and seating.  I'm getting fairly good at removing the head, linkage, and shell plate to clean up spilled powder.

I can, and have, used a brass brush to clean/polish the inside of the primer feed tube.  I haven't the slightest idea of how to attempt to solve the occasional blockage in the feed mechanism.

Your suggestions/criticism appreciated.

Thanks,

salty

 Edit.   Primers are CCI, LP, Lot #??.  There is no lot number on the end flaps.

tnx,

sd.

Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: rbwillnj on January 20, 2011, 12:38:10 am
Jerry,

In my experience, there isn't enough room in a Star primer magazine or pickup tube for primers to turn sideways, or rotate.  You should not be able to insert a primer sideways into your primer magazine.   Are you using an original Star primer magazine and pickup tubes, or possibly another brand.   I have seen some pickup tubes (Dillon I think) that are so oversized that if you set them down on their sides, the primers would rotate and flip.   Do you think that might be what's happening in your case?
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 20, 2011, 08:34:01 am
Perhaps.

It has been a long time since I last used the Star.  That said, I didn't have this difficulty with CCI years ago.

Like mayn of you, additional goodies were aquired over time.  I think the primer pick up tubes are Star. but I wouldn't have a way to verify, or not.

It seems to occur MAINLY when transfering the primers from the pick up tube to the longer feeder tube.
But can occur just about any time.

salty

EDIT:
I just rec'd an e-mail from another forum member re CCI Large Pistol primers.  It seems as though I am not the only person who has had a problem with them.  Using the 'search' feature, I found where several folks have had less than satisfactory experience.

Now, I just gotta figure out how best to use the remaining 4,500 CCI LP primers. I really don't want to go back to the Rockchucker.

tnx,

sd
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: fc60 on January 20, 2011, 11:13:54 am
Greetings,

My wife, before we were married, blew up a stack of larger pistol primers. It was a Phelps machine and the primer tubes are not as accurately machined as the Star. The primers were able to fit sideways and the primer shuttle sheared one setting the stack off.

I suggest you contact BruceW for a replacement tube.

If you have access to pin gauges measure the id of the tube. Try a visit to a local machine shop with some donuts. Report back what you find.

Cheers,

Dave
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 20, 2011, 11:38:02 am
I haven't had any detonations yet. 

Getting the primers unstuck involves a mallet and wood shrimp skewers.

I do wear glasses and a welders gauntlet when I start beating on a stack of ill fitting primers.

My recollections of the Star are comparable to the Energiser Bunny that just keeps on working. Not so lately.

I imagine that, 'till I get this sorted out, my primer purchases won't include CCI in lots of 5,000, ever.

Again, suggestions/criticisms appreciated.

salty
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: ARTINCT on January 20, 2011, 02:24:33 pm
Hummm.....
 :(

To be frank with you all, I have NEVER had an issue with CCI primers (modern manufacture) or any other brand (Rem, Fed, WW) in any of my Star machines.
How are you gathering up the primers?  In a real STAR brass primer feed/pickup tube?

How are you putting them from the pick up tube into the primer magazine tube?

If you can explain your equipment and method, we can perhaps help you out with a solution.

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 20, 2011, 04:25:23 pm
Well, I put 100 primers in the tray, jiggle them around a bit till they're all pointed face down, invert and put about half of them in a pick up tube.  Place the tube over the resovoir, pull the pin, and gravity pulls them down.  Most of the time.  When they get lodged, thats when I break out the specs, gauntlet, mallet, skewer, and vaccum cleaner.

Sometimes they get lodged in the primer feed mechanism. That requires interuption of the cycle and the start of the fun and games associated with  shell plate removal.

salty
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: ARTINCT on January 20, 2011, 05:26:42 pm
Ok, then I would do the following.... were I you.
I would take a long metal rod, wrap the tip with 0000 steel wool and some bore compound or polish
and polish the inside of the primer magazine.  Then totally swab it out.  YOu may need to do this
with the pickup tube as well.  In fact do this with both.

Tell us how that goes...
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: tony barone on January 20, 2011, 07:11:39 pm
If you are using the right size primer magazine that should not happen.Is there a ding in the tube? Have Bruce send you a new magazine. Driving primers out of magazines is risky business.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 20, 2011, 09:01:24 pm
You're right Tony.  It should not happen and I haven't had this problem prior to this batch of CCI.  That kinda leads me to think

that the issue is with the occasional primer, not the tubes. There are no abnormalities in the tubes or primers that I can see.  Just

 occasionally a primer moving down through the stack will wedge itself in place. I have been away from the Star for about twenty

 years or so and I'm having to re-learn a bunch of stuff.

Thanks,

salty
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: tony barone on January 20, 2011, 09:31:17 pm
Salty I have used Winchester small rifle primers loading 38 s/c starline brass since 1986 and have probably loaded 300,000 rnds since then.I can remember about a half dozen primers that were out of spec during that time period that would hang up in the magazine. I would clear the magazine and identify the bad primer but I never had to force anything. Try another brand of primers and good luck.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: NYKenn on January 20, 2011, 09:32:28 pm
Well, I put 100 primers in the tray, jiggle them around a bit till they're all pointed face down, invert and put about half of them in a pick up tube.  Place the tube over the resovoir, pull the pin, and gravity pulls them down.  Most of the time.  When they get lodged, thats when I break out the specs, gauntlet, mallet, skewer, and vaccum cleaner.

Sometimes they get lodged in the primer feed mechanism. That requires interuption of the cycle and the start of the fun and games associated with  shell plate removal.

salty
I would suggest at the very least to have a full tube. I have never had this problem in the tube, but have always loaded a full tube, not partial.
I have occasionally had a primer problem in the feed mechanism, but that was usually due to dirt, or debris.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 20, 2011, 09:49:04 pm
The case feeder holds 50, so it seems to make some sense to top off the primers at the same time.
Title: cleaning primer magazines
Post by: Kirk A on January 22, 2011, 02:58:52 pm
When I got my Star, I had to clean out both the small and large magazines. I found that .22 cleaning brushes worked on the large magazines, and .17 worked on the small magazines. (Note that a .17 cleaning rod is required; perhaps you already have one for an airgun.)

-Kirk
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: ARTINCT on January 22, 2011, 03:13:07 pm
I feel that polishing the inside of the magazine and refill tubes is a very good idea.  A bore mop with some Flitz, Wenol or Autosol metal polish will work good.
Or a coat hanger (straight part) with some 0000 steel wool and polish can do the job.  After all, some of these STAR machines are pretty up there in age and the crud and debris that accumulates takes it toll on them.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: rbwillnj on January 22, 2011, 04:45:04 pm
I did have one batch of primers (Winchester SP) where the anvil was set too high.   No problem with them dropping through the pickup tubes, or the primer magazine, but as the primer slide moved them out, they would get hung up in primer magazine socket.  Sometimes it would tear the anvil off, sometimes it would deform the primer, but I would always have to dismantle the primer system and remove the shell plate to clean up the problem.   As soon as I switched over to another batch of primers, the problem went away.

If primers are getting hung up in the primer magzine, clean it up as described above, and check for damage.  Also, check the bottom of the primer magazine for burrs around the hole.  Sometimes they get dropped and it peens over a little bit of brass.  Use a tapered reamer or a round file to make sure there isn't any brass getting in the way of primer movement.

As mentioned above, if you need a new magazine, I have them.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: tguntrader on January 22, 2011, 05:39:21 pm
Salty, About 3 yr,s a go I got a batch of cci small pistol primers that would fall out of my cases. I don,t have any lot # to check. The cases was new and once fired.

                        tguntrader
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: saltydog on January 23, 2011, 10:31:00 pm
I did have one batch of primers (Winchester SP) where the anvil was set too high.   No problem with them dropping through the pickup tubes, or the primer magazine, but as the primer slide moved them out, they would get hung up in primer magazine socket.  Sometimes it would tear the anvil off, sometimes it would deform the primer, but I would always have to dismantle the primer system and remove the shell plate to clean up the problem.   As soon as I switched over to another batch of primers, the problem went away.

If primers are getting hung up in the primer magzine, clean it up as described above, and check for damage.  Also, check the bottom of the primer magazine for burrs around the hole.  Sometimes they get dropped and it peens over a little bit of brass.  Use a tapered reamer or a round file to make sure there isn't any brass getting in the way of primer movement.

As mentioned above, if you need a new magazine, I have them.


I need one.  Pick up tube also.

Part number 23, Primer Slide spring has been uined. McMaster Carr has bunches of springs but I do not know what length, load rating, etc to order.   The original has left this galaxy by way of the Black Hole that once was the floor of my garage.  


If you have this part, or can supply dimensions, maybe I can get this thing back together.  



THANKS,

salty

Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: rbwillnj on January 23, 2011, 10:46:44 pm
Salty, 

I'll send you an email.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: cc656d on December 31, 2011, 11:24:12 am
Problems can occur with primers . I purchased my first Star in [no e-mail]@. I used Remington primers for years but changed in the mid 80's . I loaded a lot ( bullseye shooting ) and Remington gotto the point of failure to feed in my Star. This would happen about once per hundred. It became a pain to clean the tool of loose powder. Remingtons Quality Controll was lacking. Upon examining the primers that gave problems I found that they were oval , not round and this was enough for the primers hagg up in the primer magazine. When I found a Remington large primer with two anvils I realized it was time to change. Also I have found one with no anvil. I still have both.
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: Rolling Stone on December 31, 2011, 08:29:13 pm
The one thing I see from the opinions in this thread is no-one has mentioned a primer follower. I use a 1/8" brazing rod for this and have a marker (Electrical tape) that shows how close the rod is to being all the way down and locking up the primer slide. I use 100 primers at a time and it seems that would be two of your case feeder loads. But I am telling you, I can't get this number thing to work out, ever. I think it comes under "the best laid plans" thing. How are you getting the last primer to be picked up loose from the pickup end. That is where I use the follower and push the primers down to the clip. Then with the follower holding the primers toward the clip
#1- I position the pickup tube over the primer housing.
#2- Remove the follower,
#3- remove the clip and the primers will gravity feed into the housing. Doing this operation, it is possible to let the two tubes get out
     of  position and possibly get the first one turned. Carefully do this.
#4- Then you carefully insert the follower into the primer housing and let it keep the primers tightly pushed down.DON'T DROP IT DOWN THE TUBE ONTO THE PRIMERS.

Remembering to check the marker when the press locks up and won't cycle will be your next experience, or it was mine. CRS. By the way I use all kinds of primers and in my experience, The primers ain't the problem. Maybe this will give you another place to look for your problem.
Rolling Stone
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: Dave T on March 04, 2012, 12:33:08 pm
When I bought my first Star, in 1978, the guy who got it for me said Star Machine Works told him to use Winchester WLPs as they fed the best through the priming mechanism. I followed his/their advice and loaded 45s with WLPs for over 20 years without a single problem. YMMV!

Dave
Title: Re: CCI Large Pistol Primers getting sideways
Post by: 1960 on March 04, 2012, 11:20:58 pm
Are you using the follower rod?  I haven't seen it mentioned.  If not, the action of the machine might flip the primers.  tt